Bids. the barrel and chamber are bright and clean. 1 Winchester Model 70 Ultra Grade Featherweight 270 Win. The deeply blued barrel and receiver frame are very good. My wife shot her share of ducks with a 20-gauge autoloader bored Improved Cylinder shooting one ounce of #7 1/2-shot. Also, the rib and its receiver extension cover the Winchester proof marks, a sure sign that it is not factory installed. I rebuilt all of the trigger assemble with all new parts just reusing the guard. Rib Boat, Winchester Winchester Rifle Parts, 12 in Frame 12 in Wheel Electric Bikes, 12 Gauge Barrels, Youth Football Rib Protector . Twelve magnum guns grew lighter over the years and consequently kick harder. Winchester recognized the scarcity of ducks in their promotional advertisement of the new duck gun To Meet the New Wildfowling Conditions. I suspect most Model 12 duck guns bought before World War II were put to work on other game. 26" Vent Rib Barrels Choked SKEET. It would stop ducks consistently at 80 yards. Two years after Askins wrote the above, he received from Ithaca the first 3 1/2inch Magnum 10 double off the assembly line. 3-inch Super Twelve Shotshell My copy of Winchesters Catalog No. SN is 167xx, all numbers do match. Buy a Winchester Model 12 12ga., 30-inch Full choke, Simmons ventilated rib; this gun was made in 1941 (se for sale by Vintage Sporting on GunsAmerica.com the best online marketplace for buying and selling semi auto pistols, firearms, accessories, and collectibles : 963027340 The near nine-pound Model 12 duck gun is an anachronism among todays waterfowl hunting shotguns. - Straight Sighting Plane - Floating Vent rib action - Extra Strong Silver soldered posts Gun Type Over/Under w/RBSingle Barrel w/RB Model 12 duck guns had the same six-shot capacity as the standard Model 12: one in the chamber, five in the magazine. And unlike our competitors, it extends beyond the buying process. The pidgeon-grade duck gun was discontinued in 1961. I had a friend who is deceased now that did extensive research on the Model 12 2-pin rib. It has the long action slide handle. 30" Full choke barrel. Franklin and his two sons John M. Olin and Spencer T. Olin were the managers of Olin Industries and Western Cartridge Company in 1931. Winchester made changes to the stock of the Model 12 duck gun after its introduction. Manufactured in 1959. A 2pin vent rib lets the shooter sight under the bird and keep the bird in sight. Keith stated in 1967: The old 70% standard is now obsolete and most any full choke gun will go 75% or better. In reading Stadt's statements on page 109 of the latest version of this book, I don't see where he is too sure of his statements. These are rare, a line can be seen along the dounut post on both sides. Pandemonium! When it was. Simmons vent rib and custom AA+ walnut furniture. Actually, it is generally thought by researchers that no Winchester factory Model 12 ribs were made or installed by Simmons. Winchester Model 12 16 ga NIB Never Assembled! Chamber marked 2 3/4", choke marked full, and 14" LOP. Full choke was the only standard boring available. Experts can attest to the vast improvements they have found shooting with the Simmons Ventilated Rib. Although acquired many years apart, the two duck guns are of nearly the same vintages, 1952 and 1953. BARREL 30" CHOKE FULL 90% FACTORY BLUE ORIGINAL FACTORY HEAVY DUCK RECOIL PAD WOOD VERY GOOD. Winchester - Model 12 Factory Try-Gun, 12ga, 30" Barrel. Winchester ~ Model 12 Custom~ 12 GA Used Guns. Ronald Stadt states in Winchester Shotguns and Shot-shells: All Winchester special ventilated rib magnum guns examined have sand-blasted receiver tops. Solid ribs were offered until the mid-1950s, except as noted by Stadt: The 1960 wholesale-retail catalog listed 30-inch solid rib pidgeon magnums. The takedown joints are tight (See the instructions in Madis book if your Model 12 has a loose take-down joint). Since Every shotgun manufacturer is a friend of mine, Askins views were well known in the industry. For example, only about 300 Super Fox and 800 of the Ithaca Magnum 10 doubles went into hunters hands during the period. The straighter stock reduced perceived recoil. This percentage was disappointing compared to the 80% or better patterns obtained with other duck guns tested by the staff. My second blast bites off a dismayed climber. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. This Model 12 has Serial Number 1391884 was produced in 1953. seller description. If you pull the trigger and the shell does not fire you must push the slide handle forward to unlock the action. First of all was the end of management by people who were not familiar or sympathetic with the gun and ammunition business. The Olins were avid duck hunters. A study of Michael McIntoshs book Best Guns indicates that a few thousand of the specialized waterfowl doubles of all brands were sold between 1921 and 1941. Field grade pump gun with Mod choke barrel. Mechanically, the Model 12 duck gun differs little in design from the standard Model 12. Franklin W. Olin founded Western Cartridge Company in 1898. the store. to be finishedat least thats what Stadt says in his book"Winchester, Shotguns and Shotshells"very interesting book.a little different look at M-12 than Madis and Riffle.WC. The Model 12 was about 40 percent more expensive than the '97, yet it consistently outsold its older brother during the 45-year-span they shared in the Winchester catalog. According to my source your Model 12 Winchester was made in 1924, so it is 89 years old. Charles Askins is the father of the late Colonel Charles Askins, Jr., of course. He is engraving the old (Ulrich big duck 12-5 pattern) on it. So a shooter really doesnt need a rib. $899.97. becouse plain barrels shoot higher than solid ribs do ,solid ribs shoot flatter. Eight major concealed carry insurance programs are now available to the millions of Americans who carry concealed. Length of pull is 14". It won't be a collector but a shooter and should draw some attention. Madis comments Fancy walnut was considered too fancy for the rough treatment often given a duck gun. Fancy walnut could be ordered and the few pidgeon-grade duck guns had fancy walnut. If it's a 12 gauge, replacement factory butt stocks can be hard to come by. These were called long-range waterfowl guns.. JavaScript is disabled. IC CHOKED MIROKU MADE. As far as early 2 pins, remember there were a few made as early as 1919, standard and "graded" model 12's (ie) "Black Diamaonds" they had the longer checkered forearm. Duck guns always sold for a slight premium over the standard model. The Nylon 66, a relatively inexpensive rimfire with faux woodgrain, was the first successful synthetic-stock firearm. One of my favorite subjectsI've read and reread the books by Madis, Riffle, and Stadt, and I still find it a little confusing. When I went to the university in a different town I worked for another gun shop that was an authorized Winchester Repair Center. I believe the solid ribs were soft (lead) soldered like the model 21's. I was in Jr college then. Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. The Olins soon added to the attractiveness of the Model 12 duck gun by bringing out a new 1 5/8-ounce load for the 3-inch shell. Something went wrong. In an ad in the October 1952 American Rifleman, Winchester proclaimed. Pictures are of the item listed. The Model 12 was the first magazine repeater chambered for 3-inch magnum shells. Then people would choose a grade of model 12 and add or change things to ther hunting or shooting style. This test determines if excessive peening of the bolt locking cut in the receiver has occurred. Manufactured in 1959. I kept the ones that were dearer to me so now they live in safes and I hate the safes. Western brought out their Super-X 2-3/4 and 3-inch shotshells in 1921. The finishes and rib are 100% Winchester and in great condi, Used Winchester Model 12 20 Gauge 26" barrel WS-1choked skeet Cutts compensator with restriction inserts good condition Buyer pays shipping Millers Gun Center Located in New, Winchester Model 12 pump action 12ga shotgun. Checkered semi-fancy walnut pistol grip stock with extended forearm and a solid Winchester recoil pad. The earliest gun they found with a 2-pin rib has a serial number of 2037xx with a date of June 30th, 1919. The straight grip stock, optional from 1935, was discontinued in the late 1950s. There was no need to shoot ducks at 60 yards. on your local stores shelf, most retailers drop ship it from a warehouse in No Reserve. I also have seen a few in my day where the solid rib was removed and actually sent a customers Black Diamond to Simmons back in the seventies to put a vent rib on a solid rib gun. Contact us if you need an add on vent rib for your shotgun or order your Simmons ventilated rib barrel today! An 80% pattern they felt should make it a real 60-yard outfit with No. Original appearing donut post and round post vent rib Model 12s with no Simmons markings and proof marks in the proper places are generally thought by collectors to have been made to completion in the Winchester factory. In fact, Madis states Any twelve gauge Model Twelve could be re-chambered and reworked to shoot three inch shells for a small additional charge[by Winchester], yet few guns were reworked in this way. I can find no external differences in receiver dimensions, other than the ejection port, between standard and magnum versions. The 3-inch shell was chambered originally in the famous Super Fox long-range double. The shotgun featured here was made in 1976 and is in stellar condition. Also available initially were standard trap and special trap grades. This was after extensive reworking of the chokes by Ithaca. $550 USD. Their attitude is summed up by Elmer Keith in Shotguns by Keith: the satisfaction of seeing big ducks crumple at long range and come down and bounce on the ground or splash high in the water is the cream of shotgun shooting., It is my view that the long-range duck-hunting cult was a legacy from the days of market hunting. Skeet gun marked "2 7/8" chamber skeet 28 gauge. It was John Olin who inspired Westerns revolutionary Super-Xshotshell in 1921. The steel has a nice patina and the stock has most of the lacquer worn off. Winchester undertook preparations for improvements in its firearms line following World War II. These ribs have Simmons markings. Gun Digest editors know guns so you know guns. ORIGINAL BOX INCLUDED. The funds are returned to the states for wildlife restoration projects. Checkered stocks and extension slide handles were available as options on the standard grade throughout most of the duck guns production. A smothered roar from around the corner! The slide lock is automatically released by the forward nudge of recoil in the Model 12. Thomas C. Johnson came to Winchester in 1885 and remained a dedicated employee until his death in 1934. Instead of buying a gun thats Very fine as professionally custom finished, showing 95% of the refurbished blue, with scattered rust spotting and handling marks. 28" vent rib, full choke barrel with front bead sight. Both guns averaged 80% or better patterns with all loads of #4 shot. Some patterns of #4 shot might let a duck escape if it were caught just inside the margin of the 30-inch circle. I used to club trap targets with it. The Model 12 Duck Gun is a highly specialized tool for hunters who need to put a lot of shot on target at 60 yards or more. Has a Cutz on the end of the barrel. There are 16 pages of loads for various shell lengths, shot sizes (dust through buck, soft or chilled), five powders, five shell grades and 11 gauges. Probably a lot farther than we can hit em. Winchester Model 12 28 Gauge (W9229) Price: $3,250.00 Item Number: W9229 Previously sold Winchester Model 12 28 Gauge shotgun. The new 1935-style buttstock featured a closer and fuller pistol grip. Winchester Model 12 1940's gun. My favorite 2 pins were Trap Guns made between 1957-1959 including special order Pigeon grades; fit, finish and blueing was best in those later years. 4 chilled shot.. Simmons also removed Solid Ribs from barrels and added his rib to those barrels. His shotguns were undoubtedly the best long-range duck guns he found in extensive testing. "Metal parts of the Model 12 are machined from chrome-molybdenum, the toughest, longest wearing and finest gun steel known." Barrel lengths were 30 or 32 inches, but 32-inch barrels were discontinued in 1948. Thought behind it was that a taller rib on the bbl and a higher comb on the stock would help prevent "head lifting". WINCHESTER MODEL 12 HEAVY DUCK GUN 30" SIMMONS VENT RIB 1953 PRE-64 RARE 12 GA. MAGNUM 3" EDITION PROOF MARKING - 12 GAUGE MAGNUM - 5 - 30 " The original "Old milled rib" was developed by Winchester in the 1920's- but like so many of the older quality features, post WW11 competition by Remington and Ithaca made Olin-Winchester more "cost concerned"-- Many Model 12's were equipped with Simmons ribs afterwards, some were sent to New Haven by Simmons, and some Model 12's (and others . The Model 12 duck gun came to market at the all-time low point of duck populations in the United States. Winchester Model 12 Skeet Gun 12 gauge with 25" Solid Rib Barrel - 12 GA: 0 1d 7h 25m 17240921. Alex, we don't have enough info to give you an informed opinion. Free Shipping, No Credit Card Fees. Later pump guns, such as the Remington Model 870 and Mossberg Model 500, do not have the slide lock feature. Although the quality of the rib will be the same as the original Winchester, the only way a Simmons rib looks OK on a Model 12 is if they DON'T put their silly name down the side of the rib. It is not as slow or pokey as one might expect. The staff shot skeet with the gun and concluded It is not as fast as the standard Model-12, but nearly so., In further shooting tests the staff found We could not discern any practical difference in recoil effect when shooting standard three inch heavy duck loads. Winchester supplied two boxes of 3-inch shells loaded with 1 3/8-ounces of #5 chilled shot pushed by four drams equivalent of powder. See pi, Winchester Model 12, 28 gauge SKEET pump action shotgun, circa 1955. I know of a gun shop in Idaho that can take about any model 42 and put on round post ribs or solid ribs that are just like factory original with the proof marks. Thanks for the reference. I have often wondered how well my guns would pattern with modern ammunition. Ernie special order model 12's from Winchester to add his Dounut Vent Rib. The magnum led to new class of long-range double-barrel shotguns for waterfowl. In 1963, when production ended, Riffles book shows no options available. Beautifully figured wood is solid with only light handling marks and marks on bo, This Winchester Model 12 started life in 1924 and has been customized by unknown individual at some point. I have owned a Pigeon grade model 12 trap Dounut vent rib, built late 1955, now that's an oddity, who would order a Pigeon Trap with a Dounut Rib (?) Jack OConnor was there and sets the scene nicely in the Complete Book of Shooting. . Need Help?service@guns.comCall (866)582-4867, PO Box 1131 13800 Nicollet Blvd Burnsville, MN 55337 2023Guns.com. This test, along with a check of adjustment remaining in the takedown joint and functioning of the slide lock dis-connector, are my standard mechanical checks for a Model 12. Winchester Model 12 16Ga Pump Shotgun 28" Excellent condition Made in 1939 Gun #: 903285649 Seller: JerArms GA Sales: 60 $872.00 Full Details More from this Seller 1 Image (s) Winston Churchill custom Winchester Model 12 Pigeon 20 gauge, gold relief, staggering wood, provenan. This product contains chemicals known to the state of California to cause cancer and birth defects or other reproductive harm. To elaborate on lowgun's response, the "round post" rib was made by Simmons, not Winchester. Add to Cart Winchester 12 12 Gauge (W9744) $995.00 Winchester 12 12 Gauge shotgun. Patterns were fired from a benchrest, using American Target Company B21 silhouette targets measuring 35 by 45 inches. Deluxe checkered walnut, Its new in the original box with associate paperwork in wrapping paper.. has mi, Metal surfaces rate very good, handling marks to wood. I believe the blueing to be original. I have a questionwhen a gun is described as having a "milled rib" I thought that referred to the fact that the barrel had posts that were milled as part of the barrel instead of being attachedI see guns described as having "round post milled ribs" I don't think that is correct? However, the gun for which Johnson is best remembered is his Model 12 pump-action shotgun, The Perfect Repeater.. But they must pass our way to clear! Remington's Nylon 66 semi-automatic .22 LR rifles have grown from 1950s bargain buys to 21st century collectors darlings. The history of Oliver F. Winchester (1810-1880) and his endeavors in the manufacturing of fire-arm sat Bridgeport and New Haven, Connecticut, is filled with circumstances that could have led to corporate failure. Free Shipping, No Credit Card Fees. The Model 12 shotgun, initially the Model 1912, hit the market in August 1912. . Dolphin717, please give us a page reference in Stadt where he mentions Simmons sending Model 12s with ribs back to Winchester for finishing, and/or marketing. Action works perfectly. You jack the shell out and it goes off under your nose. Some will even go 85% to 90%, but rarely. Keith, who obtained Askins Ithaca 10 magnum double upon Askins death, achieved 93% patterns with two ounces of copper-plated#3 shot in the big double. The standard 12-gauge duck load in 1921 was a 2 3/4-inch shell holding 3 3/4-drams equivalent powder and 1 1/4-ounces of shot. Pattern percentages were around 70% with these latter loads. The ducks shot by me in the accompanying photograph were taken with Skeet boring and trap loads of #7 1/2-shot. Sto, Used Winchester 12 20 Gauge, Pump-Action Shotgun, 25" Barrel Wood Stock, No Box. Two birds tumble all awry from among the leaders. S/N 1,589,*** made in 1954. Helping out a person with 3378 posts who if they spent 5min. Rangemasters are here to answer all your questions about our products or process. The perimeter of the disc was then marked and the enclosed pellet holes counted. The barrels and receivers of Model 12 duck guns are made from Winchester Proof Steel. This steel was first used in the Model 21 double introduced in 1931. Many online gun sales actually take away from your local When I dress Western, nothing beats the classic good looks of my Smith & Wesson (S&W) 586 .357 revolver. Condition: excellent bright bore, 98% blue overall thinn, Winchester Model 12. Range was 40 yards from gun muzzle to target frame. Although the quality of the rib will be the same as the original Winchester, the only way a Simmons rib looks OK on a Model 12 is if they DON'T put their silly name down the side of the rib. The Simmons rib is done at Winchesters direction as it has the WP proof offset from the rib. The survival of both Western and Winchester now depended on Olin management. custom bolt act. (no choke stamp on barrel). This gun has been single family owned since bought used in 1967. Ab steadies the boat. Both guns were disassembled, cleaned and lightly oiled before testing. Westerns copper-plated shot, introduced about 1925, extended shotgun range even further. 1937 2pin vent rib offerd, all skeet grade guns offerd with solid or plain barrels. In an ad in the October 1952 American Rifleman, Winchester proclaimed. The receiver is heavier and so is the barrel. He worked with another Winchester researcher. Item . community. I don't believe it has been fired. is 14" with pad. DAC 1 1/2"&n, FRO YOUR VIEWING IS A EXCEPTIONALY NICE MODEL 12 IN 3' HEAVY DUCK. I have several 2-pin guns. The trap load was included because trap shooting is suited to the duck gun. Stay in the know. The buttstock was reshaped on Model 12 shotguns again in the mid-1950s. Stock is very fine, with light scratching, pressure dents and an attractive grain pattern. It was a little rough so I am doing a restoration. The era of plentiful ducks and liberal bag limits was also ending. Standard Grade: 12-, 16-, 20- and 28-gauge; plain, solid or ventilated rib round barrels; standard lengths 26", 28", 30", 32"; plain walnut pistol-grip stock; grooved slide handle. Note: The posting of Copyrighted material on this forum is prohibited without In those good old days of the 1960s the ducks flew just above the cattails and shots were plentiful. 30" Vent Rib Excellent White Front . It also got a new action slide. Original appearing donut post and round post vent rib Model 12s with no Simmons markings and proof marks in the proper places are generally thought by collectors to have been made to completion in the Winchester factory. Bore is excellent. Most everything can be easily bought online these days. And you are not right about them becouse the model 12 evolved over time with improvements you didn't seem to catch becouse you are probable not a shooter. Options for the Model 12 duck gun were reduced over the years, particularly following World War II. I wish I had them back! It is, somehow, not easy to avoid shoving shells wrong end first into ones gun. Charles Askins provides data for the patterning of several of his personal shotguns with Westerns Super X shells loaded with their new #4 copper-plated shot. My name is Chuck 620 515 0556. President Roosevelt signed the law limiting magazine repeaters to three shells for migratory game bird hunting in 1935. Curious, I fired five additional patterns at 60 yards with Model 12 number 1418XXX and the Winchester load of 1 5/8-ounces of #4 shot. prior written consent of the Copyright holder. Will Winchester ever build the Model 12 again? Model 42s with donut post ribs, no Simmons markings, proof marks in the right places, in the proper serial number range, are considered to have been made to completion in the Winchester factory. Chamber marked 2 3/4", choke marked modified, and 14" LOP. These were turned out by the Hunter Arms Company of Fulton, N.Y. in L.C. Winchester stated both 2 1/2 and 2 3/4 shells perform satisfactorily in this [duck] gun. The ejection port of the duck gun is about 1/8-inch longer than the standard port. It was Western that produced the 3 1/2-inch 10-gauge magnum with 2 ounces of shot in 1932. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The rib wasn't offered until 1954 according to the Dave Riffle Model 12 book so it wasn't originally produced at the Winchester Factory. The barrel is stamped "WS 1" with 2 3/4, ****SOLD******Mfg 1956, 30" 2-Pin Vent Rib, Full, B-Carved Wood, 13 3/4" Lop to Winchester Pad, Wood shows some handling marks Nothing Bad, 90-95% Blue, Shiney Bore, Buyer pays 60.00 shippin. This gun is in excellent condition and has very desireable solid rib barrel with full choke. Askins concludes How far are we going to be able to kill ducks? Title. Sold them when we down sized to a smaller house that did not have a custom built safe room in it like the old house. Get the latest news and reviews from Gundigest.com. Blue Book on this fine collector 12 gauge is around $2,700! The duck gun version of the Model 12, introduced in 1935, was a natural consequence of duck hunters in charge of Winchester. His handload was a .heavy load of Herco powder and 2 ounces of shot, either 2s or 4s. Madis states Ventilated ribs were rarely offered on [duck] guns. However, The fact is a few duck guns were provided with these ribs. Dave Riffles book and the various catalogs I have indicate that the Winchester new ventilated rib was an option from about 1954 to 1959. Learn how your comment data is processed. The slide handle was enlarged in about 1956 to a slightly extended beaver tail shape with 14 circular grooves. Action works very nicely. Severe drought conditions gripped the United States and Canada during the 1930s. Checkered semi-fancy walnut pistol grip stock with extended forearm and a solid Winchester recoil pad. 2023 Rock Island Auction Company. At a reasenable Price, you can have that gun you allways wanted without all this drama. Winchester proof steel is chrome-molybdenum steel. The Olins used the Western ammunition plant at East Alton, Illinois, as collateral for borrowing about four million in cash, no small feat in the fall of 1931. The short shot string put more shot into a duck whistling by at 50 yards. The load averaged 67.5% (range 62-72.5%), in a 30-inch circle at 40 yards. Its been debated over the years if the solid rib model 12 barrel were silver brazed or fused with heat? Come join the discussion about targets, clays, hunting, gunsmithing, gear reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! Auction Date: December 7, 2019 Estimated Price: $ 8,500 - $ 13,000 Price Realized: Details Exceptional and Documented Smoothbore Winchester Model 61 Slide Action "Rifle" with Simmons Vent Rib and Box Manufacturer: Winchester Model: 61 Type: Shotgun Gauge: 22 LR Shot Barrel: 24 inch vent rib Finish: blue Grip: Stock: walnut Item Views: 1599

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