First, check for updated programming for the TCM strategy. Starting with the 2017 Ford F-150, the 10R80 transmission was an option. The 10R80 transmission is a 10-speed, rear-wheel-drive transmission that is controlled by a PCM or a TCM. With its 2017-2018 heralding, Ford has equipped 3 domestic models with the 10R80 transmission. Unlike previous shift solenoids, they are mechanical in nature in that no transmission fluid passes through them (Figure 2). It appears that GM has put a very minor taper into the cover and possibly the piston as well. In 1987, he assumed the role of editor for Hot Rod magazine before returning to his first love of writing technical stories. Always inspect the sump for possible evidence of debris that could indicate the pump drive gears could be failing. Eighth 0.85 It features a dry weight of ~195 lbs. Much akin to the GM 10L80-E & 10L90-E transmissions is the 10R80 transmission's oil pump. Case 1 piece aluminum with integrated bell housing This took the dealership a much longer period of time in acquiring these bolts for Brian to complete the job. But tall highway gearing arent the only way that this transmission maximizes efficiency. Trying to decide if its worth upgrading for the 10L80 alone. Comparing that to our old TH-400 combo, wed need 5.40:1 rear gear to equal the overall First Gear ratio in the new Corvette. The overall First gear ratio is 2.48 x 4.10 = 10.17:1. The transmission is automatically shifted featuring performance algorithms to minimize upshifts during closed throttle driving to prevent unnecessary shifting. Grade braking and clutch line pressure (for greater holding power) are additionally great features that are activated by Tow / Haul mode on the truck platforms. and GCVW of 21,000 lbs. The 6L80 (and similar 6L90) is a six-speed automatic transmission built by General Motors at its Willow Run Transmission plant in Ypsilanti, MI.It was introduced in late 2005, and is very similar in design to the smaller 6L45/6L50, produced at GM Powertrain in Strasbourg, France.It features clutch to clutch shifting, eliminating the one-way clutches used on older transmission designs. 1. But the cause he discovered was related to the pump. Thats a great question. Note, all models will have a warmer. Like earlier automatics, the 6L80 features one line pressure tap available for testing and diagnostic purposes. The TCM is actually even programmed to adjust its operation for transmission clutch wear. The 6L80 is a robust transmission and can handle a ton of power. Indirectly affects shift scheduling and TCC scheduling. The 6L50, 6L80, 6L90, 8L45, 8L90, 10L60, 10L80, & 10L90 transmissions from MY2015 to current are filled through a port in the bottom of the oil pan. Use it to verify the vehicle has a M30 4L60ENow, if the transmission is out of the vehicle (or if you dont trust a sticker), the 6L80E has an 18 bolt case. As to length, this transmission is 26-1/4" long. A sectioned image of the 4L60-E TMBX and 6L80, 6L90 JMBX (Figure 3) shows the external profiles of the respective front covers are very similar. Thanks Jeff. The small 10-speed gear steps allow the engine speed to drop to lower values than it would in the 6-speed transmission, providing for the best fuel economy. Transmission Pan Bolt Set Chevy 6L80E 6L90E 8L80E 8L90E 10L80E 10L90E 18pcs. Comparing the two cross sections, you also quickly see that the orientation of the spring dampers is different. Drive the vehicle until the engine and transmission reach normal operating temperature. About 80% of issues are cured by updating the programming. In any event, precise coordinate measuring (CMM scans) of a variety of JMBX covers shows that the covers are wavy and have undulations on the clutch surface, especially opposite of the welded cover pads. I use this vehicle to tow a 20 ft 10k trailer that I use to carry a 5500lb tractor. As the 10 speeds continue to make their way into our shops, keep in mind the more you know about them, the better off youll be. There may or may not be codes associated with these complaints. Since 2003, Jeff has held various positions at Car Craft (including editor), has written books on small block Chevy performance, and even cultivated an impressive collection of 1965 and 1966 Chevelles. Looking for parts number : new shaft, copling et seal and where to find them. In fact the input torque rating is 440 lb. Applications. I didnt realize that it came equiped with such a lame gear ration 3.08. With 10 forward gears to choose from, the 10L80 transmission is able to reduce the fuel consumption of a high horsepower engine. Note: The mounting pad is usually a part of the extension housing, but the graphic shows it on the maine case. $3,245*. Codes P0741 or P1744 may or may not set in the PCM or TCM (depending on application). Sonnax has a line of upgrade parts that address some of the 6L80 and 6L90 transmission weaknesses. This 7-3/8" long extension housing can eliminate transmission crossmember modifications when replacing a TH400 or TH200-4R transmission with a 4L60 assembly. But keeping the engine in its ideal RPM range allows the 10L80 transmission to operate with nearly the efficiency of a CVT transmission. But it does take a bit of experience to not damage anything on the valve body or inside the . Thank You.. Jef, Swapping a LS3 and 6 spd trans in , In place of a 454 and a turbo 400 3 spd, I currently have posi rear, Big yolk drive shaft, after the conversion, will i need to mess with the rear gear, or will I be ok for around town and occasional red light duel. and can weigh up to ~230 lbs. So whats the most common failure thats seen time and again with these? You also asked about GM's new 6L80E. Its a longitudinal transmission (thats what the L in 6L80E stands for). Copyright 2012 This is a normal and desired behavior. All of the 1998-up cases used behind the LS family of engines used the separate bellhousing style of case. TSB 18-NA-026 Transmission fluid leak The General Motors Hydra-Matic 10-speed 10L80 automatic transmissions is a heavy duty (high performance) variant of the Hydra-Matic 10LXX transmission family. Note: The mounting pad is usually a part of the extension housing, but the graphic shows it on the maine case. While the 6L80 is generally mechanically compatible with Chevrolet and GM Gen. III+ engines, due to its advanced control strategy, the 6L80 is functionally compatible only with Generation IV GM engines and their matched Engine Control Modules. 6L80E / 6L90E 4-5-6 Clutch. Accelerator pedal position: Directly affects shift scheduling, TCC scheduling, and transmission diagnostics. The torque converter is a fluid turbine drive and - like those on its predecessor transmissions, the TH350C, 700R4, 4L60, and 4L80E - features a lock-up pressure plate for direct mechanically coupled driving from the engine crank. Repeat Steps 3 through 9 six (6) additional times. It's a longitudinal transmission (that's what the L in 6 L 80E stands for). As transmission builders know, it can be difficult to determine a root cause when you are looking at a catastrophic failure, with rotating parts crashing into each other. Established Member. The GM Hydramatic 6L80 transmission heralds a significant change in the design of automatic transmissions at General Motors. During the inspection of the transmission, Brain noticed that the idler gear could be easily lifted off of the bearing with just the use of his fingers (see figures 2 and 3). So its no wonder that the new cars accelerate so welltheyve got a ridiculously deep overall First gear ratio and reduced rpm drops between the gear changes. I have a 2wd 2000 regular cab stepside bed Silverado that used to make closer to 600-650 wheel horsepower with the D1-SC Procharger and 4L80E. Lets talk about some of the concerns and fixes we have been seeing. Internal hydraulic leakage, hard part failures and contaminated/failed solenoids are all issues that can plague units, some more than others. With REVolution, your transmission becomes an integral, critical part of your combination, allowing you to maximize its performance using either the Quick 6, Quick 4, or Quick 2 controller. Both covers have very similar profiles and thicknesses, and you would not expect that one would be any more prone to flex or distortion than the other. Always appreciate the great exchanges. This creates the situation where the engine drops less rpm from First to Second gear. Gears Magazine Trans temps climbed to 195 and has stayed there ever since. Concerns can range from any of the following: These drivability concerns can be mistaken for transmission malfunctions. How do Sonnax components prevent the failure that plagues these units? TH350 High Performance Transmissions / 850 Hp Full Race, TH400 High Performance Transmissions / Stage II - Stage VI, TH200-4R High Performance Transmissions / Stage I - Stage III och Full Race, TH700R4 / 4L60E / 4l65E High Performance Transmissions / Stage II - Stage V, 4L80E / 4L85E High Performance Transmissions / Stage I - Stage V, 6L80E / 6L90E High Performance Transmissions / Standard - 1000Hp, Speed Potential Calculator for Ring Gear and Pinion Changes, Engine Alternatives. So the service life is limited, and the warranty will only last 1-2 years. 2018 YUKON DENALI 64K ON THE MILES HAS A CLICKING NOISE AT A IDLE LIKE A CRACKED FLYWHEEL OR SOMETHING BOUNCING IN THE PAN CHEVY PUT NEW EXHAUST ON IT THINKING IT WAS IN THE CONVERTER ALSO PUT A NEW PUMP IN THE TRANS THIS SOUND IS NOT THE SAME EVERY TIME SOUNDS LIKE A BOUNCING BOLT SINCE THE PUMP WAS IN STALLED NOW SEEMS TO OLY MAKE NOISE WHEN WARMED UP MY SON IS A TRANSMISSION MAN HE SAYS IT A SOUND THEY MAKE WHEN THEY ARE SUCKING AIR NOT SURE ON THAT I WAS A MECHANIC FOR MANY MANY YEARS CANT FIGURE THIS OUT NOR CAN GM ANY THOUGHTS ON THIS ? Cart Page 2 August, 2019 Bulletin No. Ford describes their two different shift strategies as single and double step shifts. The question is will the 10L80 be as strong as the 10L90? JT. In the TMBX, the damper is on the transmission side of the clutch piston, and in the JMBX, the damper is located on the engine side of the piston. 3. Copyright 2006-2020 GEARS Magazine. As the transmission approaches normal operating temperature, reverse movement is non-existent. Accelerate from a stop with light throttle (15%), ensuring that upshifts 1st through 8th occur at engine speeds between 1300-1600 rpm. But before you have a brand induced meltdown, lets look at all the things that make the 10L80 transmission so unique. Upon full inspection, the unit is loaded with metal, and the pump (bell housing) is worn to the point of needing remachining or replacement. It employs an even deeper First gear ratio of 4.02:1 with tighter gear splits but does not apply an overdrive for subsequent gears. Become a 6L80-E and 6L90-E expert now! document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Now it has RPM Level 6 but if a 6L80E or 6L90E swap was introduced or even the 8 and 10 transmissions it would be a game changer. Wait 1 second. The 6L80 is doubtless a very successful OEM transmission, and a terrific conversion transmission in the right Jeeps and situations. The location of the warmer and the routing of the hoses can vary widely. Lots of good information I do have one question That no one seems to be able to give a good answer to. But in the 6L80 JMBX, we started to look very closely at the converter itself to see if we could determine a root cause. Shift the transmission to Reverse. 6L80/90 - 8L90 Floor Tap Shifter Kit. The band number is printed on the solenoids in the location shown and will be a 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 (Figure 3). The TMBX and the JMBX have similar covers and use the same woven carbon friction material, yet the JMBX fails catastrophically at a very high rate and the TMBX cover rarely fails. Before we get started, lets cover the basics. At part pedal, when acceleration is brisk, single-step upshifts would result in very frequent shift events (a very short time in gear). Specifications The 6L80 denotes that the transmission is a 6-Speed, Longitudinally mounted, and for 8000 lbs. It features dynamic veins and a rotating wheel driven by a steel gear with it's own filter. SEE, I think it's a 15 pin plug and two wires change on the plug fro 95 to. Before answering that question, its worth noting the role that Sonnax plays in the converter rebuilding business. 1) Centerline of engine and transmission are the same on LS block and all trans that mount to it. The Sonnax forged covers and pistons are designed to be flat and will stay that way through the forces of converter welding, miles of driving and varying input torque from the engine. I believe this would allow a lower horsepower engine to perform similarly to a higher HP engine mated to a TH400. Diagnosis and correction of a max line pressure condition may become, With Hondas 10-speed front wheel drive transmission (see Figure 1, above) going into its fifth year on the roads, its feasible that one may show up in your shop for service. The 6L90 transmission is slightly longer and taller than a comparable configuration 6L80 due to its beefier internals. None of the above categories describe me. DESIGNED FOR GEN V LT1 & LT4 ONLY. Internally they are very different but at least with the 8l90 you do not need to completely disassemble the transmission to convert to 4wd from 2wd. The factory clutch apply piston has a sharp, square edge that does not completely apply force across the entire clutch piston. Its like wheres Waldo. This creates an uneven force on the clutches that tends to . * DOES NOT INCLUDE A DRIVESHAFT OR CROSSMEMBER. GM states, ". 2024 Mustang Prices Are Out, Dark Horse Is . if (yr!=2012) Fits 6L80, 6L90, 8L90, 10L80 units, TR6060, TR3160 manual units. RECALLS! Retiring Early The Transmission Industry Has Been a Dream Come True, A two-piece valve body with eight solenoids. The GM 10L80 Hydra-Matic transmission is one such hybrid component that General Motors jointly developed with, wait for it, the Ford Motor Company! The 6L80 began manufacture in 2005 for release in 2006 model year GM vehicles, persisting until at least 2016 in both 6L80 and 6L90 versions. The 6L80 is a modular transmission, featuring removable bellhousings and tailhousings for interchangeability with the GM 90 Degree engines and other potential engines in the future. For a type A code, the MIL will illuminate after one drive cycle with the malfunction present. For a type B code, the fault must be present after two consecutive ignition cycles, otherwise, the MIL will not illuminate (however, a pending code will store). So you would need to begin with a 2008 or newer Express to be able to convert from a 4L80 to a 6L80 / 6L90. Engine speed: Directly affects shift scheduling, Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) control, line pressure, and transmission diagnostics. Sonnax highlights two product lines for helping with heavy solenoids for GM/Ford 10L/10R and 9T series transmissions. this means that dimension "C" is usually longer than dimension "B". The Ford 10R80 is a new 10-speed, rear wheel drive transmission that's available in several models, beginning in 2017. However some 2wd vans and HD truck versions had a36 spline. 60 mph with cruise on going down hill and truck will start down shifting. Convert your american classic car with more modern technology. I am currently planning on a high compression LS2 and a progressive nitrous kit but before another 4L80E goes in there is a 6,8, or 10 speed not an option? Required fields are marked *. Recently, they received a 2021 GMC Yukon with a very unusual sound coming from the front of its 10L80 transmission. Homepage: Garage: Wiki: Register: Community: Calendar: Today's Posts: Search: #Camaro6 . It has a line pressure tap for diagnostic purposes. Chevrolet Transmission Dimensions Dimension "C" is the distance from the bellhousing to the center of the transmission mounting pad. Indirectly affects TCC control and shift control. The 6L80 was, from the ground up, developed as an electric over hydraulic transmission with microprocessor control. Within only a year, GM had introduced an even stronger variant of the 6L80; the 6L90, RPO code MYD. The thought is that the bowl shape of the TMBX is better suited towards a more even apply, and because its thinner, the TMBX piston has the ability to flex and better conform to the front cover. However, if you look beyond the outside of the front covers of TMBX and JMBX and look inside the units, the similarity quickly disappears. Do you know does the aftermarket have a fix? Hi, im doing a swap from Yukon 2019 to 1987 Regal. If you have any questions that I may be able to help you with, drop a comment or contact me. The thicker JMBX piston cant conform to the cover (like it can in the 4L60-E TMBX), and at a commanded slip rate of approximately 50 RPMs in lockup, there is ultimately metal-to-metal contact that occurs between the front cover and the piston. For the most part, this transmission has been phased out by the 8L90E already, but is still in prodution. If thats the case, the valve body will have to be replaced to correct these concerns. GM 6L80 and 6L90 units are now starting to reach their prime age in the repair cycle, and techs across the country are starting to see a consistent pattern of transmission failures with full-size 6L80, 6L90 vehicles. Did they release much info about it on the trucks? Ninth 0.69 The 10R80 doesn't have a traditional "front" pump. Your email address will not be published. It's RPO code is "MYC" and it is domestically manufactured in GM's Ypsilanti, Michigan plant. 80 series is rated for 80 Newton's, 90 series is rated for 90 Newton's. It would be a huge mistake not toAFM is garbage. Bolt and gasket inlcuded. Dimension "C" is the distance from the bellhousing to the center of the transmission mounting pad. Then, because the six-speed is splitting ratios, the rpm drop between gears is less because TCI has turned this into a five-speed automatic with an overdrive. (You can unsubscribe anytime), ATRA The case is a cast aluminum alloy. This is the abridged version of my problem. Pre-Owned. See the pictures below to help you tell if you have the right transmission. In fact, there are absolutely no cast-iron components, including the 10L80 stator support. Torque Converter 260 mm with Electronic Controlled Capacity Clutch (10L80 ECCC) All Rights Reserved. The CIDAS (Casting Integrated Direct Acting Solenoid) are all normally low solenoids. We all know that automatic transmission failures can have many root causes. I & II A remanufactured 10L80 on the other hand, is completely remanufactured, and its designed to exceed the manufacturers original specifications. While working on a 2017-2018 Ford F150/Raptor, 2018 Expedition, Mustang, and Lincoln Navigator equipped with a 10R80 transmission, you may experience erratic TCC operation, or a TCC shudder concern. Fourth 1.80 But, GM had been in transmission limbo, so to speak, needing a modern transmission to fill the duty gap between the excellently versatile4L60E (and its tougher 4L65 & 4L70 variants)and the Allison transmissions. The GM 10L80/90 transmissions began production in 2017, meaning that we're closing in on six years of this transmission being on the road. Drivability concerns are confirmed, and the pan is chock full of debris. I have a 700 R4 trani with a dash mounted after market switch to engage or disengage my lock up.The trani has a 2500 stall & is behind a old school 383 stroker engine with 388 hp at the motor with a 3.73 Rr gear. All I can find is that it is sealed from the rear and just needs a new tail housing but some say its got to be completely rebuilt from the inside. Nov 26 . Internal hydraulic leakage, hard part failures and contaminated/failed solenoids are all issues that can plague units, some more than others. There are too many differences between in communication protocols and renders the transmission nonfunctional. Other common 6L80E transmission problems include: This pan fits the GM 6L90, 6L90E transmission, typically found on these vehicles: . The TCM-2600/2650 is used to enable the use of the GM 6l50e, 6L80E, 6l90E, 6T70E and 6T75 E transmissions behind practically any engine. The solenoids are calibrated from the factory and are not all the same. All previous GM automatic transmissions were virtually all based on hydraulic controls, and received increasing electrical elements as they modernized. To achieve this flip-flopped damper orientation in the JMBX, the profile and shape of the piston is radically different from the TMBX. Each clutch is controlled by a corresponding shift solenoid A-F. It probably wont do much for the elapsed time which is all that really matters. You might run into a lack of valve body repair options. What is a good torque converter today for a 4.3 high output 4 wheel drive Blazer? Thread starter 2nazty; Start date Nov 26, 2018; Nov 26, 2018 #1 2. The 6L80 was approved for use in these vehicles weighing up to 8600 lbs. So why does the JMBX converter have this chronic problem? The 4L80E is a very large, heavy transmission but, like its original TH-400 cousin, it can absorb and transmit an enormous amount of engine torque. A rebuilt 10L80 will only have a certain number of components that get replaced. The ball bearing remained tight on the stator shaft support housing. However some 2wd vans and HD truck versions had a, J Series Trucks & Wagons, (I6 Your cooperation with this program is greatly appreciated. When other diagnostic trouble codes are present, there can be different, specific drivability concerns caused by the failure management program. and the maximum output torque is 664 ft. lbs. Indirectly affects shift control. Specialized manifold for 10L80,10L90, 8L90, 6L80, and 6L90 transmissions, allowing you to connect -6AN fittings to your cooler lines. The dealership was able to provide this part rather quickly. A horsepower revolution spawned by GM's increasingly powerful Gen. III+ V8 engines and their aggressive platforms such as the Cadillac STSV, XLRV, various trucks and SUV's and the venerable Corvette. You are browsing camaro6. This drives up the price of the rebuilt converter, but ensures that this kind of failure wont happen again. _____ HBM 2016 2SS A8 NPP Pray . Related Articles ATI introduces new e-clutch hub for ZF8HP51 Sonnax adds new stator support bushing for Ford 6F35 Alto adds to intermediate clutch PowerPack line for GM transmissions According to Sonnax, the heavy OE LFS, GFX announced a new pump component for GM Powerglide models, covering several vintage model years: 1950 through 1973. Knowledge is power use it to protect your customer, your unit and yourself for miles and miles to come. Autostart / Autostop function disabled (if equipped), Transmission Adaptive Pressure Control and adaptive shift values Frozen, High line pressure (harsh shifts and engagements). The GM 10L80/90 transmissions began production in 2017, meaning that were closing in on six years of this transmission being on the road.

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