There's an easy answer to this the oblivious, tone-deaf culture of "readiness" that GEN Milley fostered while serving as the CSA. Ultimately, the Army needs to focus on the retention of quality talent; not on retaining mediocre talent for a longer period of time "because they can mandate longer ADSOs.". Well also see some advantages of Active Duty and some options for cutting your time there short. You make an excellent point..I'm a twice retired CW4 (did a voluntary retiree recall three years after my first twenty). Regarding the future Army Commissioned Lts in wishing to branch aviation, that will be an issue next year. Army Publishing Directorate - Details Page Paste as plain text instead, Believe it or not, more than a few fellow senior non rated Army officers are jealous when it comes to flight pay. Before Army Secretary Ryan D. McCarthy signed a memorandum for the change in June, the Army had bumped up its incentive pay for aviators in January. Hopefully it is dependent on start date and not graduation date. Thereafter, the ADSO incurred pursuant to the Army Branch for ADSO Program will be served concurrently with any other non-statutory ADSOs. This call to action comes amid challenging times, with many civilian airlines running on reduced flight schedules, said Chief Warrant Officer 5 Jon Koziol, the Armys command chief warrant officer to the aviation branch, during a Facebook livestream in June. The consensus seems to be that if you graduate flight school in FY 2021, you accrue the 10 year ADSO. change without notice to me. Can't be branched aviation. The earlier you can Palace Chase, the less difference there is between a regular Active Duty pilot and someone following Stans plan. Id always wanted to be a pilot and didnt know anything else, so I said the Doolie equivalent of Shut up and take my money! (There was a lot more Sir and Maam involved.) Graduate School Program: Only 20% of the Aviation Branch allocation for ROTC and West Point can receive the Graduate School Option. That's the Army's ace in the hole. Yes, that is 11 combat stripes. The AvB is essential to retain Officers with an Army aeronautical rating, who are critical to the overall success of the Army's mission. At least in the early 2000s, there was the ARFORGEN cycle. Another anecdote, when I was deployed there was a desire to have experienced cockpits on higher risk/higher visibility missions usually two pilots with 1000+ total hours. Why not allowing retired personnel to do what they always wanted? Before people get started on the, this is the way the Army goes and all that, I know. pay, allowances, benefits, and responsibilities as a member of the Army rescinds COVID-19 vaccination requirements, $84 million contract awarded for Excalibur replenishment, Army officer part of newly resumed cooperation for International Space Station, Chief Warrant Officer 3 Sarah Stone is just one of four, Army CIO speaks at Army Europe and Africa 2022 Cybersecurity Summit, Transcript: Media Roundtable with Mr. Douglas Bush, ASA for AL&T, July 27, 2022, Transcript: Media Roundtable with Dr. Raj Iyer, Army Chief Information Officer, and LTG John B. Morrison, Jr., Army Deputy Chief of Staff G-6 June 09, 2022, Vietnamese-American service members parallel paths to the American dream, Bengali chief warrant officer finds the American dream through serving, Soldiers inspire new Army directive on parenthood, pregnancy and postpartum policies, U.S. Army STAND-TO! Army, Coast Guard . I wish thiswasa little more clear. The Army has more career Enlisted soldiers willing to cross over for the opportunity in being an Officer, pilot and increasein pay for their families, with or without a degree. Holla at yo boy and lemme know what y'all are thinking. Think they will pay the bonuses and flight pay like the other branches? These cadets may not be willing to forgo an extra four years of civilian work experience to serve as aviation officers. The US Army recently changed its aviation Active Duty Service Obligation from 8 to 10 years and created an absolute uproar. (USASOC) Commissioned and warrant officers who enter flight training starting in October will incur a 10-year service obligation once they become rated Army aviator s, according to guidance. Traditionally, the Army has not struggled to recruit pilots. I still don't understand how this ADSO extension is going to fix any of those issues, though it may act as a "gotcha" to get people "over the hill" in their Army career where they wouldn't feel like a transition at 10-12 years of service would be a good decision. Display as a link instead, The increased ADSO only harms this effort further. Is a 10-year Active Duty ADSC so terrible that its worth passing up? My family got to live in England for three years and it was fantastic! Were you planning on doing it for less than 10 years?, His answer was, Of course not. Hah right. Plus, you will also be earning full GI Bill benefits AT THE SAME TIME. Although its easy to feel stuck on Active Duty, there are also options for getting out early. I'm good at doing Army things and I enjoy them too, but I don't know if I can commit so much of my life before I've even had my first real taste of being an officer. One can just see all those 2LTs cringing when the folks at the bottom of each class are forced to take Aviation during the branching ceremony. Your previous content has been restored. The rest are grandfathered in. That is not a good thing. PDF Training Officer Active Duty Service Obligations - United States Army In congressional testimony it was stated that at that time (2019) around 40% of the pilot population was within 3 years of being retirement eligible. Today were going to compare the more common Active Duty career path with the Ultimate one that Ive recommended so heavily. In the end, it's the Army getting a good return on the investments.. PDF Rotc Branch for Active Duty Service Obligation (Adso) Contract Even during a deployment when demand for flight hours was high, the more senior Warrant Officers were flying double that of the more junior pilots. Upload or insert images from URL. This ADSO will likely cause a sharp decline in recruiting among cadets selecting their branches and enlisted soldiers and civilians interested in becoming Army pilots. This eventually allows you to retire a full four years earlier than any other military aviator. Like it or not, you need to accrue that experience one way or another, First, as we just mentioned, you only have to worry about one job flying one aircraft for Uncle Sam. How do Warrant Officers get promoted? Brennan Randelis a captain in the United States Army and is the former commander of Alpha Company, 4-2 Attack Battalion stationed at Camp Humphreys, South Korea. I transitioned from infantry to aviation and have had off-and-on heartache with it ever since. Gen. Michael McCurry, the director of Army aviation for the Office of the Deputy Chief of Staff G-3/5/7,who said in September, One question I often get asked is, are the airlines impacting your shortfall? The 10-year service obligation is the result of a numbers-related calculus related to Army manning and will not address the problems that make Aviators leave. , you must start on Active Duty. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. There's definitely a balance issue, and I suppose the grass is always greener on the other side. Would they do it with a 12-year commitment? Such changes may affect my status, By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Over the last few years, Army senior leaders took steps to address the pilot retention challenge. Army directive, AD 2021-31, approved Sept. 10, 2021, and effective Oct. 1, 2021, will reset the time required for aviator warrant officers (military occupational specialty 152 through 155) to. They run concurrently, butthe latter takes precedence, so your 6 (or 10) year ADSO begins the date you graduate Flight School. I was just curious if the numbers are stillsimilar. This used to be unheard of. I dont know if there are enough of us to completely change policy, but you need pilots and Im willing to fly for whatever period is demanded of me Im not the only one. The change comes as the cost and requirements for aircraft have increased across the board, Kearns said. What is everyone's take on the new ADSO for aviation? b. Also new is that time in grade for WOs doesn't start until you graduate flight school. I want to do it for as long as I can. , this is far from guaranteed. I've been in the Army for a long time, and it's never been worse than now. But, we want as many people as we can get to apply. If you want to. The 10 year ADSO was based on whether or not you pinned WO1/2LT by a certain date, not by when you started or graduated IERW. Sounds great! I was under the impression that the bonus went away when they upped the 10+ year flight pay. Since classes are generally pretty well mixed with people with respect to when they commissioned, the first couple of classes must have been a mix of people on the old 6 and the new 10. Branch of Choice: Your BRADSO obligation runs consecutively with your flight school ADSO and your commitment will run out to about the 10 year point. USMA graduates accepting an appointment in the Regular Army incur a 5-year ADSO (10 USC 4348). A 10 year ADSO on a guy that already is a senior E6/E7 probably didn't make a lot of sense at the time as well. Subject to the needs of the Army, newly rated aviators should be used in operational flying duty positions immedi-ately after their successful completion of Army aviation flight training. The First 10 Year ADSO Class : Armyaviation - reddit In regards to our flight school length, the AF and Navy actually won't recognize our flight school as a valid flight school for earning wings if we try to branch transfer as part of it which I do find amusing. It also left plenty of time to have a normal life and spend time with one's family. First, as we just mentioned, you only have to worry about one job flying one aircraft for Uncle Sam. If pilots today are so unhappy that they are leaving in numbers higher than expected, why would prospective pilots accept a much longer service obligation for that same experience? Army Career Satisfaction Program (Yes, they say ADSO instead of ADSC because the Army and the Air Force refuse to do anything the same since they divorced back in 47.) They think this is going to solve the shortage. While its not impossible, and BogiDope can absolutely help you get there, this is far from guaranteed. Starting in October, all personnel selected to attend the Armys initial entry aviation training will incur an ADSO of ten years upon graduation from flight traininga dramatic increase from the previous six-year commitment. We dont have good measurements out there right now to tell us why an aviator is getting out of the force. Without useful data, the Army cannot implement targeted retention solutions. 1 Sacknuts93 3 yr. ago Probably not. Laws and regulations that govern military personnel may 10 is nuts. If you havent already read Part, Part 1: Air Force Reserve Officers Training Corps (AFROTC) Table of Contents What is AFROTC? The Army will continue to honor all GRADSO contracts for officers from YGs 2006-2013. for a discussion of these options and their advantages.) There are some other prerequisites they have to meet. Quote zaurus Members 280 Gender:Male Posted June 6, 2020 Alice's restaurant However, after spending a few more minutes thinking about how these career paths might compare, I decided Stans idea might not be as advantageous after all. Additionally, Cadets awarded Aviation Branch cannot participate in the Post of Choice program due to the inability to project requirements beyond flight school. Graduate School Program: Only 20% of the. The new policy doesnt include Soldiers currently in training, said Chief Warrant Officer 5 William S. Kearns, aviation and officer policy integrator for the Armys G-1 office. I don't know too many that would care to be told to mop the floor of the pilot's office, fill the refrigerator, go help wash the aircraft the things that junior warrants typically do when they are new to a unit out of flight school. It's not exactly friendly but this is the military. Additionally, because of rules that the Federal Aviation Administration has put into place over the last decade that make hiring civilian pilots difficult, many regional airlines have created rotary-wing transition programs that substantially ease the transition for Army helicopter pilots. Furthermore, the Army should implement quality of life and quality of service surveys for every pilot who remains. Be older than 18, but not more than 33 years at the time of board selection (Active Component (AC), USAR, and ARNG) . Just to end it and walk away.. victorious..? Even if the increase in commitment lowers the civilian WOFT applicantnumbers, the in house career Enlisted pool will fill the void. There will always be external factors and organizations that draw quality talent from the Army, but the Army should have more flexibility in their ability and measures to retain quality talent. Yes, they will retain aviators when the quality of life increases for aviation, not just grinding us into the ground until a new command comes along every 12-18 months and does it all over again. Powered by Invision Community, https://www.reddit.com/r/Armyaviation/comments/gxcx3o/10_year_adso_is_official/. If you havent already read, Welcome back to Part 2 of our series about career progression for Air Force pilots, from the pilot perspective. army aviation 10 year adso - tecis.in In my first year and a half after flight school I flew over 500 hours. That's the Army's ace in the hole. In order to figure out the pros and cons of these different options, we first need to compare the timelines side by side. Soldiers pilot a CH-47 Chinook helicopter during a training flight over the city of Erbil in the Kurdistan Region of Iraq, May 23, 2020. 10 year ADSO - General Military Helicopter Discussions - Vertical Increased ADSO Effect on Recruiting and Retention Officer Active Duty Service Obligation (ADSO) Guide If anything it hurts recruiting new pilots. By collecting data and then improving quality of life and quality of service with targeted retention initiatives, the Army will not just increase retentionthe positive changes will increase the appeal of serving as a pilot in the Army, and recruiting will increase as well. If I am reading this correctly, this applies to officers that attend initial flight school after October 1st 2021. ADSO is completed. The first step the Army must take is to implement exit surveys for pilots to determine why they are leaving. I wonder how this will effect street to seat recruitment for WOFT. Press J to jump to the feed. That was the last straw for several senior pilots in my battalion and the majority of them retired after/because of that deployment when they had intended to stay in for at least a few more years. Also get's a TS which is money, but dealing with army IT infrastructure is frustrating. An ADSO twice as long as other branches (for academy grads) or 6+ years longer than ROTC counterparts is only going to deter quality officers that view an additional obligation as a loss of opportunity for careers beyond the service. Army Aviation Leaders should. I bet less than 300 WOFT selected are non prior service on a annual basis. West Point graduates have a 5 year commissioning ADSO. Once Stan finally gets qualified in his aircraft, hed get seasoning orders with his Guard or Reserve unit. My family got to live in England for three years and it was fantastic! What is the real answer? The extended ADSO is intended to increase Army pilots' retention in the future. . I'm thinking Army will start pushing dates to the right as much as possible to achieve its newfound maximum retention. Increasing the ADSO, though, does not require datait is guaranteed to increase retention. I remember similar drama during my Fourth Class (freshman) year at the USAF Academy as we were forced to sign a paper accepting a similar ADSC increase in case of getting an Air Force pilot slot. I see three and four star Generals with less, HOW?! With survey data in hand, the Army will likely find that it needs to continue to invest in its aircraft fleet to ensure pilots receive adequate flight hours to remain proficient. This is the amount of time that an officer must serve on active duty. Hed probably get 2-3 years at that assignment, but if he did a good job the Air Force would offer him the chance to get a Masters Degree through the Air Force Institute of Technology (AFIT) at Wright Patterson AFB. The. Hed still have to go through steps 2-5 from the Active Duty pilot career path above! 4 years closer to RTAG if they're hiring. Especially since TN he Chinooks are B Co 2-104 from CTARNG and I was the CDR and PC sitting in the left of the Chinook in the foreground on the left. Sometimes that's necessary, but there's got to be some balance. This of course will do nothing to fix the problem of toxic leaders, poor assignment choices, or any of the other issues. However, we have to look at more than just the number of years involved. This global pandemic has made unprecedented impacts on the worlds economies and our way of life, Koziol said. Theres a two word solution to this, age waiver. Unfortunately, it probably wont exist long enough for it to achieve the desired effects. That means, we need you! There is no replacement theory for ARFORGEN they decided to just shelve it and go with "let's make everyone miserable all the time". It turns out that even one year is a big difference. Army Pilots put up with less Army BS and get paid more. Branch of Choice: Your BRADSO obligation runs consecutively with your flight school ADSO and your commitment will run out to about the 10 year point. While there are some top performers that will elect to pursue the branch because they plan on a career from the beginning, there are far more that may be hesitant or undecided about committing to a decade of their professional lives to a niche field when they're only 22 or 23 if they aren't already passionate about everything aviation.

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